Episode 4: Margarita Eberline

Let me ask you this: with firms, who are they looking to market to their current database or their database client’s? What’s What’s the first easy, low-hanging full strategy that you would advise?

There are three different.

What I call evergreen Campings It’s something I always recommend if you want to have trust and know like and trust
series. So, if you have simple form on your website right now,
which literally almost every law firm does, having a series of emails that is how people get to know you.

So it could be one of two emails for each of these steps, but the first step is get to now. What you do. Who are you? Get to like you, It could be a story, and then the trust series could be testimonials and  awards. This is an evergreen campaign that you can just have that will help you follow up and nurture leads that pilot forms on a website like that basic.

it into the world of our school growth strategies and everything in between the and with whitelist guests wasn’t amazing insights to share like your way to help you and how.

Welcome to the Harry podcast.

Today we have a wonderful guest Margarita, the founder and owner of Marketing Boss. She is also a fractional Chief marketing officer and She is the author of Connect Convert.

Yes!

Welcome, Margarita. How are you?

Thank you. I’m great! excited to be here.

Awesome! Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Absolutely. I am the founder of a company called Marketing Boss and if you are listening right Now, you own one of the businesses, and you have rumors or terror nights what you know about things, what I like to call marketing PTSD Um marketing basics, this is so much Business Owner by marketing.

The way that I would buy a used car, right? if it smells nice and looks shining. I might buy it, but I may break down blocks down the road. And I wouldn’t know; I wouldn’t see it coming.

So, uh, fractional Chief Marketing Officer.

What we do at Marketing Boss, that’s our main core business as we provide the leadership piece is, and we’re not in agency. So I try to do this, the hard part of this business as an agency owner, and it didn’t work. because as an agency owner like You have the devil and the angel fighting, right? It’s like Wow mighty knows how to do this, so sell them this service, and on the other side, what the client needs is this. you know, and we don’t solve that, I tried; it did not work.

And Marketing Boss is this beautiful, I’m gonna call it Nirvana Business for me, where I get to do whatever my client needs and I’m not tied to specific tactics or vendors; my background is in data analyst.

But I am my marketing to that Nielsen and at Columbia Pictures and have a lot of corporate experience before I got into this side of working with attorneys mostly. And I absolutely believe that. Why take risk that you don’t need to take? there’s data for everything. It’s not a crystal ball per se, but data can give you a good idea of what you could work. And what could potentially not work. There’s even data about colors! and people don’t understand this and so

that’s where my business, our firm comes in, providing the leadership piece. Where we’re envies were not worried about what Whether you’re going to do Social Media, TV, or both, or you know, have somebody stand on the corner with the sandwich board. We’re going to come in and give you data—a data-driven strategy. We’re going to help you create a Brand. I’m super creative. So I do like that part of it.

Uh, and then we’re going to either Use your existing thing that you have we really believe in, not firing people when we work
with attorneys. Sometimes they’re like it, I hate everyone, you know, like, tell me who the hell hiring, I’m like, wait! Let’s just give them better instructions.

So you know we use your existing team. And then if we see gaps, you know, You bring in people from either our network.

Or we will find somebody because is always new things coming up, so that’s basically me and what I do.

Oh! and I am also the mama five kids on the most efficient commitment on the planet and what I like to call myself because if there is a way to do it in the last time I’m going to figure it out.

So yeah…

Very, very, very impressive.

Uh. Okay. Okay.

Can you tell us what inspire you the right connect convert?

Yeah! So, my clients, I love attorneys, um, you all get really stressed out. And I feel like a lot of attorneys that I was working with over the years. This is, I have been working with attorneys specifically for over 10 years. Okay? So I was working with the attorneys as the agency owner And then as a CMO now and there was always this pattern works. Like you are amazing at what you do at the law and like you gotta get down and like super smart. And then you give I’m going
to call your newborn baby, your firm, over to a team. And there’s all these different people doing different things and different moving part and so I’m notice the pattern with the marketing where we will have this amazing marketing strategies and they will work beautifully like the phone will ring that people will fill all forms online all the things we are working. And then I would have these clients of minis business owners attorneys come to me and say, I am not signing up cases and I’m a detective self proclaimed and so what I kept running in to was the marketing was fine, the lead.

Sometimes could be better qualified with better messaging. There is always room for improvement there, but the biggest gap in hole was customer service and so I rode Connect Convert because I created. An actual methodology called the Connect Convert Methodology, where I can tell you with data because I’m about data-driven.

I don’t give opinions. I share data and I came up with a
handful of KPIs that I know that on a phone call, the intake person, the receptionist, whoever that is, call center whatever
you’re using if they. If they hit this 9 KPIs on a scale 1 to 10 closes to a 10, they’re more than likely going to sign up.

Those qualified cases there’s always going to be the tiger kickers especially in the legal space and if you put target Hispanics for example, you know, the concept qualified
leads get a little tricky. Because you could be a personal injury attorney and advertise only if the accident was not your fault do not call me if it was your fault I am not gonna help you with
you citation for running a red light in casino red even if you put that like in bold letters, people still gonna call you right, so that’s still gonna happen. But the goal is that if  8 people call you or 10 people call you and 8 of them actually had a valid case You want to sign up at least 6. I think that’s a reasonable expectation.

Some people are just the others not, It’s not work. But most law firms are all like a 25% 15% sign operator. And I don’t know about you, but like just thinking about PPC. The post of an actual lead is like 600 usd 1.000 usd to loss it because somebody on phone was not in touch with their own feelings and washing connecting with the other person and the other person just did not feel right and they just call the next person, like that hurts my feelings and my body, and that’s why I wrote this book. because I created this methodology
I created a course and I created a program and I thought
if I write a book, I can get this methodology in more hands a lot faster and yeah, so Connect Convert is the philosophy. We don’t need to manipulate people to sign up with our Law Firms.

We just need to connect with ourselves. So that we can connect authentically with others and find that alignment
and get people to authentically feel comfortable and getting excited one thing that we teach in Connect Convert is. You know you’re ready to offer the next step up, “Hey it’s time to sign up” and that you’re not gonna get ghosted because that happens.

We call it: the yes without commitment When the person is either excited or relieve when you’re on the phone with a potentially customer in there like. I am so glad I called you. Alright! here is the next step, sign here! If You do it before then more then likely, they’re going to be like okay, send me the agreement and then you’re never going hear from them.

There is going to call someone else because what happens when you go get about here, like  sometimes you don’t see anything. And you just don’t go act in the same way is the same thing anyways, they wrote the psychology behind it. Um. I’ve had attorneys tell me that they feel like they were starting for the Elsa when they were reading my book. Because there’s also a whole section on how to qualify cases. So if you give Connect Convert to your team. It literally walks and through
how to connect and convert the lead but then it walks in through how to qualify cases. So it has for the most common practice areas in the country. An actual section per area of the law of what makes a good case. What to look for, you know, with personal injury is like is there a insurance like there’s all that is in there, so yeah, that’s something ya talk about.

That’s amazing

Yeah! I can talk about it by forever.

Can you give some of those KPIs because, I mean recently, literally on Monday we just visited the KPIs that some of our customer experience and attention team we supposed to follow, during their phone calls.

Uh, so I have to read the book to be honest.

Yeah! I will send you a copy.

Yes, please

I am gonna give you the two that are more surprising to people. That are most uncomfortable to apply, but they work. Use the person’s name in conversation.

Harry! My name is Margarita, I’m so glad you called. How you feeling? That’s an example. It’s just creating that instant. Like, Oh! we don’t know each other, but like we know, I’m calling you by your name and when I do it over in over. So it’s called personalization is that KPI. So personalization on a scale one to ten in the Connect Convert Methodology is defined as using the person’s name in the conversation and sharing case that is or examples that related to that unique color. So, Harry if you and I were talking and I tell you that I was an offended vendor and only if is true, you are also an offender vendor, and you can talk back into your human side and say Oh! I remember what that was like, lot of journaling happening. How’s your neck? How’s your back? How are you feeling?

And we just have that little 30 seconds exchange of view.

Oh, yeah, It’s a little sour.

No worries, I’m glad you called, I’m gonna take down. you know, and you come with the conversation along. So, that’s the personalization one, It’s tricky because you got to make a habit out of them. And what happens with a lot of love from employees? They have this checklist of things that they need to do, and they struggle with them. I gotta get the incident date, I gotta get this, I gotta get that. And then gotta by human and so I can get overwhelming. So part of what we do with Connect Convert to, is we care people with a mindset coach that actually helps and do the hands. So that’s another aspect of it.

So, the other one that so pricing and super, uh, uncomfortable for most people is the commitment KPI.

The commitment KPI is where, here are you and I are on the phone and I tell you I sent you a contract. Did you get it? And then there’s a awkward tense: no, I haven’t got it yet. Okay, Let me know when you get it?

And it’s like that gentle pressure or if you are in immigration attorney the next step is a consultation. I’m gonna assign you for 10 am on Friday. Does that work for you ? Yes! that works for me.

That’s perfect. I’ll give you a minute , so you can write that down. That awkward silence! Our address 111- 555. I’ll give you a minute , so you can write that down.

What happens psychologically with that commitment, KPI is you are giving the color or the potential new customer.

Actions that they need to do that physically create the feeling of a contract than a commitment. Is so weird, it’s almost equivalent to like shaking hands.

Yeah, yeah.

There’s a lot of psychology in it. But those are the two that shock people, Whenever we do the Connect Convert workshops.

Cause we have a whole program in some platforms tiers to just do the program, and do the workshops piece. That’s the one that they’re like

Really? so I just sit there and wait for them to tell.

Yeah! just sit there and wait for them to tell you.

Can you walk me through? What law firms were you hired for? in that specific context, where you come in. And we train an intake team for example?

Yeah! So, we have a Connect Convert program that you can actually hire us for just by itself. We have the CMO service.

If you become a CMO client. We throw it in like, is just part of the package. But if you are in a situation where you are like. No, no, no, that I’m not ready for a CMO. But I really need help with this Connect Convert piece. We have a program, and the program super simple. the program begins with your team taking in on demand course as cause we have a lot of this on demand in a video course, and there’s curriculum there’s lessons. So your team does that, while you team is doing that. Our team at marketing boss is actually listening to the phone calls in adding every single one of your team members.

And we have a Connect Convert scorecard. So each team member is audited based on the scorecard. So by the time your um and then The next step they need a mindset coach. So the mindset coach looks at all this presented trouble with mpc and then we.. Oh! this person is having trouble with empathy. And the will going, and coach them on that. So by the time that is done, the coach knows where to go, and knows who to work with people. Because here is the deal

Have you ever told yourself in January? I’m going go to the gym Monday to Friday and then you don’t, right?

it’s okay, Coach, the mindset coach has figured out, why? even know I know I’m supposed to use the person’s name for some reason You know it just doesn’t come out. I can’t remember the name like that’s what that’s therefore, Then when the mindset coach is done with your coaching. We create an actual custom workshop and, I love the workshops because the workshops were done with the team So we have on this past Friday and we ended up doing a full day

So you could do a full day a half day?

it really depends on the law firm. If you give us a full day we will take a full day. Half day is fine and we do team building- So then we’re saying. Hey, so you’re supposed to use the persons name and someone will raise their hand and then say, but is awkward, oh but is this. And then somebody will offer suggestion. What’s happening and this happens without us even trying. The team moving, get on this. It’s almost like a group exercise now. So you go from being trained individual with your mindset coach in a boot camp type style and now is… Oh, you’re in this to? How may we keep each other carnival? My goal is to book. You know. Nine consultations next week and I think I can do it based on the volume of calls that I am taking in. You know what I’m learning. What are you gonna do? And then if they become like a exercise buddy. So that’s my favorite part of the workshop. Plus it’s fun, I like teaching. And then the next phase is: We are at the calls again, going to look for improvement or to look to see still areas that we need to work through and then the mindset coach does another round of the coaching. So that’s the one off program that we offer. And if you really really, You know, just want to focus on that, we do have like an ongoing thing. Because it can be a life one thing where it’s nice to have a mindset coach anytime your calls constantly. And a team auditing your calls constantly. So we have what we call a maintenance plan for Connect Convert. You could just do the one off, where in and out, oh, and obviously the workshop. The deliverable is, You get an actual documented SOP that you keep byt your form. So whenever we do a workshop. It’s branded with your logo your colors, your sales and intake process, and it has all of the Connect Convert training materials but it’s adopted and adjusted to your unique firm. So for example, you have a personal injury firm, so, yours what have had a qualified personal injury case like the generic, but we were also talk to you about.

Okay. What is different about the cases you are looking for so we could adapt.

The SOP

So now you have a documented sales and intake SOP. So that when you are onboarding people

Oh! guess what? I have video recordings of this training for our firm, I have access to this on demand course, in case you get access for life. And then you get the SOP

Nice

It’s very comprehensive.

Yeah, that’s yeah, it seems like you know what you’re doing.

Yeah hehe

Well. Can you share with us a member or a success story that you had with one of your clients? Either in the CMO space to Connect. Convert space or your advertising space.

That’s a tough one, cause there so many. I think that is going to be very relatable. No matter what size your firm is because I work with law firms. I have under half a million in ads spent. 7 million and up, right? So, there’s one on the smaller side that I think can be relatively. This attorney was working with multiple agencies and somehow ended up with no website, no social media presence. Having gone from an okay website to some social media presence that was even generating leads this is a valuable by the way, so, you know social media got the to offer and he was thinking: I’ve got to spend more money on ads, I got to rebuild my website, I’ve got.. and I remember sitting there and I’m thinking.. you’ve been in business over 10 years. You already have a database of people whose contact information you have. Why don’t we slow down here? Hire Somebody to build a website, will take care of all those things. But why don’t we focus on remarketing and actually creating a customer journey. And it was amazing because we saw a thick in referrals, and we saw a whole new volume of cases that were coming in, just for remarketing! And I like to share that case study because a lot of times, attorneys focus on the top of the funnel and on feeling the funnel. And you may already be sitting on your lead sources that you’re going on. I was just chatting with a law firm that I work with in Florida. Also about referral business and have in the list of one hundred. COIs I call them Centers of Influence. They could be other attorneys They could be people on the community. You know past clients that you can just build relationships with and remarket to versus focusing on the call traffic from the street It’s important to always fill on your funnel, don’t get me wrong.

But I like to share those case studies because I feel like that’s something that’s durable. If you’re a small law firm and don’t even have a marketing budget, or, Just getting started with marketing to me that’s the easiest thing that you can do invest. Invest in a CRM and start creating customer journeys for people who contacted you and didn’t hire you or for people who have hired you in the past, send them a birthday card, all those things go along way and they are super simple. Um, you know that particular case that either I started to share their business grow over. I want to say 25 to 35 percent within six months. Despite the deficit in which they started, like you know what I mean they already had the social media presence from before, but it has gone dark and I don’t know how much you know Social Media, but it’s one of those things if you let it die like it’s it takes three times the effort to get back up there and get visible again and and it hit gone it like that.

Let me ask you this, for firms who are looking to market to their current database or their old database clients. What is the first, easy, long hanging full strategy, that you would advise?

Um, I think there’s three different. What I call evergreen campaigns that I always recommend is,  you want to have what’s call a no like an trust series. So if you have simple form on your website right now, which literally almost every law firm does, having a series of emails that help people get to know you. So it could be one or two emails for each of this steps, but the first step is get to know you. What you do. How are you? get to like you? Could be a story. It could be a personal thing about yourself. So I have an state attorney. For example, in Here, like email series, she will tell stories of our family and how we started doing the state lab because of the up that passed away and it made it likeable. And then the trust series could be testimonials, accolades awards. This is an evergreen campaign that you can just have that will help. You follow up leads that fellow forms on a website like that basic. If you have a dead database like you. Have you know years works of data and you have not email them? You definitely want to be mindful of the CAN-SPAM Act. You can just put people CRM and send them and email blast the situation that you’re in the first thing that you should do is clean up that list to make sure that the data is correct. And then you like a one on one outreach. So this is your your gmail your outlook or whatever and you don’t have to do that one on one, you can do a group email. But I’m saying you can use a CRM and just blast people that have not updated it into a list and you want to invitame to opt in. So you need to do that first. And then what I would do is do what is call the reactivation. Hey it’s been a while! Here’s what I m up to. What are you up to, what is new with you? How your family like more personal and as a reminder. I’m here for you and yours if you are injured in an accident or arkward. Whatever your law firm, You know type is. so those are evergreen campaigns, The third evergreen campaign that I would have is some sort of lead magnet or transitional offer. You don’t have to write a book or do anything crazy. It could be a checklist.  So you have a personal injury law firm so maybe your lead magnet. You have one, but a simple lead magnet can be. You know three things that you should know after an accident. Download my free guide now. Oh! that’s another evergreen campaign, that you can get somebody something. That’s valuable that doesn’t cost you money, but that gets the mail to your list and how scroll up. your list. So those are 3 super simple ever being campaigns that any law firm any size can do. and uh, with AI these days if you can’t think of anything. You know using AI to brainstorming might come up with something amazing; don’t be lazy and just copy and paste from the AI that could help with your; you know your ideas.

What are some marketing strategies that you have seen work that have built a symmetrical results to the tactic or the offer?

When the law firm has a good sales strategy, digital. The shortest distance between a law firm and a lead is digital. Because we’re looking for an answer to a problem on our phones all the time, but down sites that if you do not have a strong sales and intake process. Then those are not going to work for you. I have seen where I could get hundred leads out for dollars a piece, but you’re not going to sign any of them up unless all your folks are doing is answering the phone and taking the message like their just going to move to the next person. So that’s like in the extreme circumstances but yeah digital leads whenever somebody does not have a brand is now is just getting started a needs to get the phone ringing. That’s the go 2 is digital money in leads out. That’s it.

How do you balance from marketing respective? Data driven decisions with creative decisions. That may manage it with one another.

I have a marketing plan that I literally was just working on right before hoping on this interview, where all of the media views were on claim. the reaching frequency for the ads were on point, but the messaging was in sticky and I could see that because I have both creative in the data analytics side. The messaging was not memorable, was confusing and so for my was obvious. If you are doing all of the right things in investing a decent amount of money and the tactics are on point, but it’s not working, then it’s either the user experience. So when I click here it goes to landing page. That’s ugly that you know that looks like it’s spam like you’re going to stole my identity. I mean that is what people think. I like who design this like you know. You gotta pay attention to that stuff. You got have the perfect tactic, the Perfect budget the perfect strategy technical strategy. But your messaging has stand out and the the biggest tip that I could give any attorney is: be emotional, be human. Don’t just say, if you are injured call me but say: If you were injured, I know what that feels like. You probably feel alone, you probably feel like you have to play
out through the pain because you could because go have to work the next day. Maybe you have a family like I do pockets, but guess what? you have options call me. Let’s talk about it. Let’s explore it like. Don’t you wanna hire me? you are not even injured right now, but like, It just hits at your core heart streams. So I look for that when I am auditing, because we do a lot of audits when I am auditing a campaign and trying to figured out. What, why didn’t this worked the way that we expected like that’s the go to it’s either the user experience, the links are broken the stuff ugly or the messaging just not sticking.

Yeah. Thank you for that Margarita. Can you tell our listeners where to find you and how they can get in touch?

Absolutely so, I’m all over social media. Don’t ask me where I find the time to create content like all day every day um. My handle my name Margarita Eberline and um, you can also follow the marketing boss handles as well. I have a marketing team that handles all of that and so yeah! and then our website is margaritaeberline.com

Awesome. Thank you so much for coming out on today’s podcast. I appreciate all the tips and information and I hope we can talk again soon

thank you for having me! It’s been great!

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