Episode 8: Daniel Rubin

Harry Nalbandyan
In your practice, have you leveraged any technology that you feel like has been a game changer or really evolved your firm?

Daniel Rubin
Yes. First of all, I live on my laptop, and I take it with me everywhere. It’s like my security blanket. If I don’t, if I don’t have it, I feel uncomfortable. I have my iPhone. I’m a Mac user. I love the Apple ecosystem. I’m looking into using AI for my practice, but it’s a little different. It’s a little difficult, because what I do is not really writing heavy. It’s investigation heavy.

Harry Nalbandyan
Welcome to Harry Handles it! The podcast where we dive into the world of personal growth, success strategies and everything in between. I’m your host, Harry Nalbandyan, and today we’re going to chat with an incredible guest who has some amazing insights to share. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, I’m here to help you handle it. Let’s get started. Today, I’m thrilled to welcome Daniel Rubin, who is a distinguished criminal defense attorney in the Los Angeles area. Thanks for being with us today, Daniel and welcome Good morning.

Daniel Rubin
Harry, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being on the show.

Harry Nalbandyan
Pleasure to meet you earlier. You know, off offline, and we were talking a little bit about your practice. Can you tell us a bit about your practice and what you do?

Daniel Rubin
Sure, so it’s predominantly criminal defense. I started my practice in 2023 I’ve grown about 60% year over year. So almost two years now, and I dealt with everything from DUIs to felony murder to everything in between. I started as an associate, like many other attorneys and I worked on a bunch of really interesting cases, really enjoyed the work, hated being an associate, so I went out on my own, and that’s what I’m doing now.

Harry Nalbandyan
It’s the American dream, man. That’s impressive growth, especially in the early phases of developing a law practice. Can you tell us what you think was a significant driving factor in that growth?

Daniel Rubin
Yeah, so part of it is, I really enjoy meeting people. I really enjoy the the extracurriculars of this business, going out to networking events, taking as many lunches and dinners as possible. But I also kind of had an advantage. I started out, I mean, I grew up in LA. My dad was a public defender for, you know, 40 years. So I know a lot of people the court system. I kind of grew up around it. And, you know, I understand as as everyone really should, that the court system is not, you know, this sort of amorphous thing. It’s composed of people, and you have to treat everyone as if they matter, because they do, from like the clerk in the court who really controls every part of a case to the judge who controls, actually controls every part of your record, your docket, so you really, you have to be cognizant of that. But I also think that taking every opportunity given to you, answer every LinkedIn message, every every email, anyone who ever asked for any help or advice, you just you build your network that way.

Harry Nalbandyan
Excellent, excellent. What’s a typical day like for a criminal defense attorney? We don’t practice any criminal defense, so I have no idea what the day would look like.

Daniel Rubin
Man, all right, a typical day today, the day is always different. I think most of the time it’s you start with some sort of appearance in the morning. I could appear anywhere from downtown LA to Downtown Riverside to Murrieta or to Santa. You know, Santa, Barbara San Bernardino. So I try to structure my day around those appearances. So that’s usually how I start the day. Driving is a large part of it, getting there in the morning, getting back. So I try to make phone calls between my time on the way back from court and getting to the office, or any other appearances I have to make that day. And then, you know, whatever work I have to do, motions, phone calls, investigation, doing something, you know, scripting for advertising, video, following up on networking messages, things like that get done mostly in the afternoon.

Harry Nalbandyan
Nice. How big is your team overall?

Daniel Rubin
My team is me right now. I’m my firm, and my firm is me. It’s a little nerve wracking because it’s entirely dependent on on me. Everything, everything needs to get done, needs to get done by me. I am the brand of the firm and the reputation of the firm. And in some ways, it’s very freeing, because I get to litigate cases the way I want to litigate them. But in other cases, obviously it’s a little bit daunting when you’re looking at, you know, three trials starting in March, that I’m I have to juggle. So, you know, you, you really have to, have to want to do the work, and you, you learn how to figure it out, and you learn the processes to make it more efficient. But eventually I’m going to get an associate. When I find an associate who can do the same job I do.

Harry Nalbandyan
That’s the, what do they call that phrase when you’re looking for something that doesn’t exist, a unicorn in the wild.

Daniel Rubin
Exactly. So it’s been, it’s it’s difficult, because you know, when you when you hire a paralegal, you know that person tenderly stays, generally stays in the background, but when you hire an associate for a criminal defense firm, the idea is to send that person out to appearances to see clients, and, you know, actually be in front of judges and talk to other attorneys, so they really represent the firm. And that’s going to be my, my first hire. So that’s it’s a little daunting to think about.

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, that is an interesting mix with criminal defense, because it is so appearance heavy, it seems like, and networking heavy with the judges, the clerks, the the prosecutors, that those relationships really matter and it could make a difference in the outcome for the client. Is that, right?

Daniel Rubin
Yeah, that’s totally true. It’s 100% true. It’s it’s almost like you’ve hired people before.

Harry Nalbandyan
One or two.

Daniel Rubin
Do you remember your first hire? What was that like?

Harry Nalbandyan
So when I first branched off on my own, my first hire was an assistant that I came with. So I came in with a team, knowing that if I had to do everything by myself, the firm would probably crumble, and I’d crumble with it. So I came with a paralegal who is now the director of our personal injury department, and we grew the team from her and I to five associates now, and about 15 to 17 different support members for different various roles throughout the personal injury timeline process.

Daniel Rubin
That’s really impressive.

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, that’s it’s been a fun road. We also do employment law and workers compensation, and both departments are just as big, and so it’s just the growth from, you know, 2019 to now where we started, the firm looks completely night and day different. So it’s been fun. Leadership challenges were fun. The growth pains are fun. They never stop. Every week is a different, is a different area of, you know, the production line or something that you gotta massage to clear the backflow.

Daniel Rubin
But I mean, the business really feels like your baby, right? So you’re you’re really taking care of one of your kids, is what it usually feels like, right?

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, especially with some of the people issues, it definitely feels like you’re taking care of your kids, you know? So, but ultimately, this is a service business, and the people are the assets of the business. So I firmly believe in taking care of the team. We just had all staff yesterday with you know, 80 of our members there. It was fun, and I hope it was a good forecast into what the year ahead brings is going to bring us.

Daniel Rubin
That sounds like a really great opportunity.

Harry Nalbandyan
And I know you mentioned your dad was a public defender for 40 years. Is that right?

Daniel Rubin
Yes, he was.

Harry Nalbandyan
Was that a big influence on your decision to pursue this criminal defense career?

Daniel Rubin
So yes and no, he he really wanted me to be a prosecutor actually. He said, You know, there are, there are more. There are more benefits to being a prosecutor than a defense attorney. And he was actually a big advocate for me going the other way on this, actually, and I actually, I got as far as the interview. I don’t know if you’ve ever done the interview for the prosecutor’s office or for so you have to basically give an opening statement based on a set of facts they give you, and then you have to answer some ethical questions afterward. But I remember really clearly what the fact pattern was. It was, you know, this guy you know, basically had got into a fight with someone at a club after, you know the guy, the alleged victim, said some racial epithets to him. There were some back and forth as to who started it, and you’re supposed to argue on behalf of the alleged victim. But I got up there in front of this panel of prosecutors, and I thought to myself, you know, this guy’s not getting a fair shake. This guy who I’m supposed to be prosecuting, right, is not getting a fair shake. So I stood up there and my mind just went blank, and I’m like, this is this job is not for me. I am not cut out to be a prosecutor. I am a defense attorney. My bleeding heart will let me do this. And hats off, to prosecuters they have a very difficult job. They handle a ton of cases every day. They have to deal with people like me every day, and they sometimes see some horrible things. So I really, you know, hats off to them. They really do a service to this, to this state and to this country.

Harry Nalbandyan
I mean, the system is fantastic to have an advocate for both sides, both trying as hard as they can to try to get some of the result for you know, the client, the people, or the individual who’s being charged with something. What’s the hardest part about the criminal defense world?Is it dealing with these stories and some of felony murders? It’s a big deal. Can you talk to us about what goes on in the representation of a client like that? Because it’s completely different, I feel like, than, you know, somebody who got injured in a car accident.

Daniel Rubin
Yeah. I mean, it’s so I think you’re talking about two different things. The first is, you know, what’s the hardest thing? I think, really the hardest thing is when you know someone is completely innocent, or the evidence should show they’re innocent, and it’s up to you to make sure that they they get, you know, the justice that they deserve. It’s nerve wracking, because you don’t want to be the one who loses at trial to someone you you truly believe, at the very fiber of your being is innocent, and you don’t want to see an innocent person get punished. And a lot of times there’s a lot of evidence where you know people lie, people, you know, I wouldn’t say fake evidence, but they they provide evidence one way, and evidence gets lost another way, because the case comes to you later on, and the evidence looks like it’s overwhelming the other way, and the person is adamant they didn’t do it. It’s heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking when you see people who have mental health issues, who’ve been suffering their entire lives, are in the system yet again, and you know, they’re looking at potentially a very long stretch of jail time or prison time, and you have to do what you can to keep them from entering the system forever. So it’s that that part, to me, is pretty nerve wracking as well, making sure they get the proper care, making sure that they get seen by the regular, by the doctors they need to get seen by. Making sure that they again, don’t end up in the system unnecessarily.

Harry Nalbandyan
That’s a great story man. At the end of all these cases, is a human being, and you know, it’s up to it’s up to us. It’s up to the lawyers to discover their story and to help represent them through that because a lot of times a lifetime struggle with mental health or any some other type of disease brings them to the situation where they’re at your doorsteps for some help. And, you know, it’s hard to figure that out. In figuring it out for the clients, have you seen prosecutors or the government play games that you thought were underhanded?

Daniel Rubin
I actually, to be perfectly honest with you, I find more that there are mistakes that are made and nothing willful or untoward. It’s mostly like, you know, things that weren’t checked over when they should have, documents that weren’t read or reviewed. Prosecutors oftentimes have like, you know, tens to hundreds of cases. So sometimes they won’t look at a case until right before you appear. Sometimes they will look at a case, you know, sometimes a new prosecutor will come in, and they won’t look at a case for a little while. So it’s really up to you to be the advocate in that situation. Do I think that the majority of prosecutors do things that are, you know, like in the movies and, you know, manipulative? No, definitely not. I think that there are some bad apples. There are definitely some, just like everywhere else, right? My headaches are prosecutors that don’t want to deal and don’t want to negotiate because their facts are overwhelming, or because they just don’t see things my way yet. But that’s that’s really where the headache comes from. But I have nothing against prosecutors as a whole. Do you find that it’s it’s something similar with defense counsel on your end?

Harry Nalbandyan
Like you said, most I feel like I just trying to do their job and represent their clients, but on the other side, when there’s an insurance company or some tortious liability in these types of cases, they do some unseemly things. It’s all within the bounds of the rules, but it’s just it raises the hairs on the back of your neck sometimes.

Daniel Rubin
What kinds of things have you seen?

Harry Nalbandyan
Subrosas. They follow you. They’ll get information about that’s not relevant to the case or their injuries. And when you try these types of cases, all that stuff comes up depending on the judge, depending on where you are, stuff may get limited or not. On this side of the fence, a lot of the times, they will throw the kitchen sink to try to save a few dollars on paying the claim for a lot of these clients.

Daniel Rubin
It’s kind of a blanket question, but how do you deal with with that kind of adversity?

Harry Nalbandyan
I mean, that’s a good question, and it’s just you got to make sure your clients, our clients, are protected, and you do that with following the rules of the game, making sure you get what the evidence you need, making sure you try to exclude what evidence you don’t need at trial before you get there, and then ultimately, it’s like you said, discovering the client’s story about what circumstances led them to your doorstep. It’s the same on this side, and when you really discover the client’s story, spend some time with them, and you’re in a courtroom and you have to try that case to a jury, the simple story of the injured person just trying to move on and get better, having to deal with on this other side, a lot of times they don’t hear about insurance or the insurance at play. It’s, you know, Mr. Smith versus Miss Jane. There’s a car wreck, but on the other side, there’s State Farm, there’s Mercury, who spent 150-$200,000 hiring investigators, hiring experts that they hire over and over and over again to try to discount the claim. And it’s just pushing these cases to trial. That’s kind of how you deal with it. Ultimately, most will cave. Most cases do settle. Some of the cases that are tried are righteous and they should be tried and some of the cases that don’t settle are, like you said, some of those cases, sometimes they’re just misinformed or they’re missing key pieces of data that we have to show.

Daniel Rubin
And it’s our job to advocate for our clients, first, first, most and every time.

Harry Nalbandyan
Zealous advocacy. That’s, that’s what we live in, breathe by.

Daniel Rubin
It’s funny, you actually mentioned zealous advocacy because the question I was totally expecting, and I get all the time, is, well, how do you defend people you think are guilty, right? I mean, how do you that’s, that’s always the question you want to ask a criminal defense attorney. Lawyers tend not to ask this question, because we understand we have a job to do, and we think that you know we are, we are the the advocates in the adversarial system. But I mean, the fact is, I mean, I first of all, like you’re an advocate. First and foremost, I believe in my clients. I believe in who they are. And sometimes it’s not about, you know, getting them found innocent. It’s about managing consequences, trying to negotiate a better deal for them. In the case of, you know, let’s say someone with a mental health issue, it’s the difference between diversion and jail time, a you know, putting them into some, some sort of program. If one is not available, an institution or a drug program, something like that. But really it’s, it’s having someone who has the the ability to explore all those alternative modes of sentencing. That’s super helpful. So I think the first thing I always ask someone is, you know, did you do it? Because I want to know how I’m going to litigate this case. If someone’s like, I didn’t do this under any circumstances, I’m totally innocent. That’s what I’m going to be proceeding on until further notice. If my client turns out that they weren’t honest with me, that’ll bear fruit, and that’s what the and that’s what the evidence will show, and you always pursue what the evidence will show, and whether or not we can achieve, you know, reasonable doubt at trial.

Harry Nalbandyan
On both sides of this of our fences, the stories we have to hear and the clients that we have here present, sometimes their stories, they play a heavy emotional toll on everybody involved. They do. They definitely do. What strategies do you use to manage that in your practice, in your personal life? Because we do have to separate this sometimes, when we go home, sometimes it’s hard.

Daniel Rubin
I have a very dark sense of humor, that’s for sure. I think when you when you see some of the things we’ve seen, you have to either develop that, that thicker skin, or you have to find another profession. So it’s always, it’s always nice being able to to commiserate with people about that. My wife, who is the nice one between the two of us that shares part of that dark sense of humor, but she knows when to when to tell me about male limit. So that’s, that’s one of the ways you sort of protect yourself. But also, you know, it’s like you said before, it’s understanding there’s a human being at both ends, and then you deal with a lot of tragedy. On my end, you deal with a lot of tragedy where, I mean, I have a vehicular manslaughter that I’m dealing with right now, where my client is alleged to have gotten to an accident, and as a result, his friend passed away. It’s a horrifically tragic thing for his friend and for their family, but also for my client. He suffers from survivor’s guilt. I mean, obviously, if he could redo that whole night all over again, he would. And there are some other factors where I believe he totally wasn’t at fault for what happened. And we’re trying to sort that out with the prosecutor’s office and show evidence of that. But again, I think they’re human beings on both sides, you know, and it’s you have to deal with, with tragedy on both sides as well.

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, I feel like that’s all we do, right? We come in after a tragedy has occurred, and we try to make right of a situation?

Daniel Rubin
Yes, no one usually calls a criminal defense attorney when everything is fine. The joke between my friends and I is, you know, I they all have my number, but they hope they never have to call me. Yeah. Do your friends have that too?

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, but they call anyway, because we do civil litigation, the questions are broad and wide and numerous.

Daniel Rubin
Exactly. That’s definitely true. But I mean, I usually get called to help out with problems, as opposed to preemptively solving them, so hopefully one day I’ll get to the point where someone calls me preemptively and don’t do that.

Harry Nalbandyan
I like that. You mentioned felony murder, you mentioned vehicle vehicles, manslaughter. Are there any specific types of cases you enjoy working on the most? Just tell our listeners what areas of criminal defense that you do.

Daniel Rubin
I honestly, I like everything. Actually, let me tell you which case I like handling the least. It’s where I can be the least effective. And that’s usually like, you know, if it’s a first time DUI. There are firms that handle this. It just this. It’s just me and my perspective. First time DUI, no priors. There’s no special enhancements, like going way above the speed limit, no accidents involved. You know, your BAC is just above, like, 0.8. There isn’t a lot that I’ll be able to do for you, I think, in LA County anyway. Depending on the case, obviously, if you you know if there was, if the evidence was collected improperly, or whatever, but if I look at the case and I feel like there isn’t a lot I can do for you, then I’ll say, you know what, this is better handled by somebody else. And those are the cases that I like the least. But a case like an attempted murder, DV cases, sexual misconduct cases, if I feel like there’s something I can do in the case, I will do it. I’ll get I will get in there, and I will start advocating. So those are the cases that I really like the most. I don’t really single out, you know, going back to the DUI again, you know, if there is something I can do for that DUI, I will do it. I will take the client on, but I don’t want to take someone’s money unnecessarily. And if you know, for whatever reason, I feel like they’re better suited to a public defender. So be it.

Harry Nalbandyan
That’s, I mean, that’s noble. If you feel like a public defender can get the same result without a big expense to the client, that’s exactly that’s providing great client service.

Daniel Rubin
I mean the last thing anybody wants, because, I mean, you have thesame issue too. I mean, when you take a client on, you’re in the foxholewith them for a year or two years, potentially even more. If you know, if they come to you and say, hey, you know the insurance already agreed to pay out the full limit, and you take a look at the case, and you’re like, well, there’s, there isn’t much more I can do here. The issue is going to be like, you know, do you take the client on or not? If you feel like there’s more here, because the insurance company has said,”hey, we’re going to pay out the full amount,” and that’s already a red flag. Well, that might be something you want to explore. Same thing here, if the DA saying we’re going to dismiss the case, or, like, you know, we think that we’re not going to file the case before you evencome on, there’s no reason for me to be there. I don’t need you to hire me. But in many cases, I’m able to get a case not filed because we’re able to provide the DA information quickly, and what would normally have been a massive headache for someone is now virtually nothing.

Harry Nalbandyan
It’s a consult with you and then you kind of handle it?

Daniel Rubin
Yeah, yeah. We I take them on as a client, trying to get the case not filed, and I’m able to do that with a number of people. That’s especially really important for cases that involve alleged sexual misconduct, potential DUIs or DVs. If you can provide some information to the prosecutor that they don’t have that can show that they’re not going to win the case beyond a reasonable doubt, there’s a good chance they don’t file it.

Harry Nalbandyan
In your practice have you leveraged any technology that you feel like has been a game changer or really evolved your firm to a different level?

Daniel Rubin
Yes, first of all, I live on my laptop, and I take it with me everywhere. It’s like my security blanket. If I don’t have it, I feel uncomfortable, and that includes, you know, family vacations, because I always needed the ability to access things. I have my iPhone. I’m a Mac user. I love the Apple ecosystem, but, yeah, I mean, I’m very mobile, because I’m in the car half the day, so I need to be able to access whatever I need to access on the go. As to like, I use Clio for for practice management. I’m looking into using AI for my practice, but it’s a little different. It’s a little difficult, because what I do is not really writing heavy, it’s investigation heavy.

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, and that investigation part is really on you and the investigative team, right? There’s nothing really an AI robot can do.

Daniel Rubin
Yeah, and I hire investigators all the time for cases. I don’t really have one on staff because I think there are different investigators that I use for different kinds of things, different kinds of jobs. But yeah, I mean it’s really making sure that you do a good job in investigation. Half the job of defense attorneys is investigation.

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, big time. I feel like that’s where, once a tragedy or an event happens, you have a limited amount of time to be able to gather evidence and investigate, talk to people, do what you need to do to be able to protect your client. In fact, it’s the most critical phase.

Daniel Rubin
Exactly, and we’re sort of at the mercy of the of the prosecutor’s office of filing. We don’t get subpoena powers until a case is filed. So there are some cases where the prosecutor has waited months to nearly a year to file a case, and in those instances, you have to try to protect evidence before you know it goes it goes away and hurts your case. So I’m sure you know all about that too, protecting you know evidence, but when you don’t have access to a case yet.

Harry Nalbandyan
Of course, man, I mean car accident happens, truck accident happens. You don’t have the car that they hit your client you don’t have. So you gotta make sure to send the right letters, make sure that the other side knows that somebody is involved, so that evidence is preserved. Not sure how that works on the prosecutor’s end, but I’m sure they have some duty to preserve evidence, and, you know, turn it over to you if they’re trying to take your liberty away.

Daniel Rubin
For sure. And it’s, you know, it’s sometimes, if they wait eight months to file that would be told to the jury. I mean, if something happens, I think it shows how complicated a case can be, at the very least, and at most, it shows that there isn’t really problem, or there shouldn’t be probable cause for filing.

Harry Nalbandyan
If it took eight months to figure it out.

Daniel Rubin
Exactly and they have unlimited resources at their disposal so I mean, it’s sort of, it’s not unlike the insurance companies, who will throw hundreds of 1000s of dollars and multiple investigators at a particular case.

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah it’s similar. I mean, they both have similar resources, similar staffing. They use similar vendors to do this kind of stuff. That’s what we’re up against.

Daniel Rubin
Yeah, I mean, the investigator’s office at the prosecutors, the DA’s office, is filled with people who are ex cops and who’ve been investigating for years, who are paid a yearly salary, who do this every day, and conceivably spend every single day of their waking life getting better at their job. So you know, it’s going up against that behemoth every single time in these cases, which should be daunting, more more daunting than it is, but I enjoy doing that. I enjoy going up against the prosecution every time.

Harry Nalbandyan
The David and Goliath stories is the one I live for, and it’s, you know, it’s the purpose behind which we do this kind of grudging work, because it’s not easy, and it’s not for everybody.

Daniel Rubin
Yeah, and I truly believe in the goodness of people. I really do, even after all this time, I think that you have to have an open mind about everyone, and that everyone should get a fair shake and a second chance if need be. I don’t know if you share the same perspective on that.

Harry Nalbandyan
100%. Everybody, some people deserve third maybe sometimes four chances.

Daniel Rubin
Some of my clients would agree with you on that.

Harry Nalbandyan
The learning curve is different for everybody. I’ve learned. That’s true. That’s very true. We have to show some grace.

Daniel Rubin
I didn’t do everything right as an associate when I first started. That’s what being associates all about.

Harry Nalbandyan
You got to eat the dirt first.

Daniel Rubin
Oh, exactly. I mean, when you, when you get a law school I don’t know if you, if you felt this way too, but I don’t know what a declaration was used for.

Harry Nalbandyan
I didn’t know what evidence was. I don’t know how you get evidence in. Do you ship it to the court?

Daniel Rubin
What is it was a notice of lodging? What do I have to do with that? But it’s, you have to, you have to pay it forward too. And now that, now that you know, we have firms and you have people working for you, it’s important to make sure that they’re trained properly.

Harry Nalbandyan
Absolutely, man. On this subject, what advice would you give somebody who’s aspiring to be a criminal defense attorney?

Daniel Rubin
Oh, man, I think I would first, I would say, get very comfortable being around a lot of people, being a criminal defense attorney at my level, like what I do, and, you know, actually going to trial, and not just being someone behind the scenes. You’re going to be in front of people all the time. You get have to get very comfortable public speaking very quickly. You are going to be regularly up in front of a court with a group of people behind you, some of which you know, some which are in the profession. And I’d say honestly, if you’re going to be a sole practitioner, get very comfortable trying to advertise and proselytize your brand. You have to get out there. It’s great if you’re an amazing attorney. It’s wonderful for your clients, but it’s good not gonna be very effective if you don’t have any clients to represent.

Harry Nalbandyan
You can be the greatest attorney in the world, but if nobody knows about you, who cares, right?

Daniel Rubin
If a lawyer practices in the woods, right? Something along those lines. But I just, I think that any criminal defense attorney at your very base, you need to be comfortable in front of people. You need to be able to potentially bring a case to trial, and not be scared to do it. And that means, you know, getting a jury to agree with you potentially, to like you, to commiserate with you, to believe you when you give your client’s narrative. I think that any good criminal defense attorney is first and foremost, a good advocate and someone who will be open- minded about their client and not judgmental as to where they came from or what issues they may have or what their family is like. You have to keep an open mind because your clients will always surprise you for good or bad. That’s what I’d recommend for criminal defense attorney. But I’m curious, what advice do you have for civil attorneys because we have such different practice areas?

Harry Nalbandyan
Yeah, it depends. If you want to be a trial lawyer in the civil arena, you’ve got to try cases, and it’s harder and harder to do nowadays if you’re an associate trying to come up. So if you’re looking for a job, make sure that you’re going to a firm that actually tries these kinds of cases. Then the next level is make sure you’re going to a firm that will give you also the opportunity to try your own cases. That’s number one. And so that’s the focus I had when I got out of law school is, how do I try some cases? Where do I go to try some cases? That was my path. Everyone’s path is different. But in this game, there is a position for everybody, and there’s a position if you’re not the trial lawyer, if you don’t want to be a trial lawyer, if you don’t want to be in front of people, there’s a place for you in this field. You know, there’s pockets of work that is, that some people are more attuned for. And you know, my advice would be to just define that and don’t give up.

Daniel Rubin
I mean, to me, being in trial, cross examining a witness is the most exhilarating thing on the planet. It is. I mean, the prep everything is all worth it for getting up there and just getting that testimony you want out of that difficult witness that is the best feeling in the world. Delivering an epic closing is literally epic. I mean, to me, there’s nothing better in the world than doing that at trial.

Harry Nalbandyan
It’s the flow state that you’re in all day. I always feel great when I’m in drought, work-balance aside, that stuff doesn’t matter. It feels great.

Daniel Rubin
That is true. And if you I think, if you’re an up and coming lawyer, and you feel that way, you. When you’re when you’re doing direct cross examination or giving the opening or whatever, then you should be in trial. I agree. You should find it, find a job where they do get you in front of a court, be it to argue motions or cross examine your direct witnesses at trial, no matter how big or small it is. If you can’t do that, take your own cases. I got started actually taking my friends small claims appeal in Stockton, California. I flew up there for the weekend and was his attorney for that one appeal. I made nearly zero on that case, but it was such a great experience, and it propelled me through my career. So I mean, it really was, and again, it’s taking every experience, taking every every opportunity given to you. It’s so important in this business.

Harry Nalbandyan
Big time. And you got to be aware that opportunities are around everywhere. You just have to be in tune and see when one presents itself to you and grab it. Awesome Daniel, thank you so much for an amazing conversation. I look forward to having you again on this podcast. And you know, meeting you, we’re in LA so we have no excuse not to, not to meet each other in person I think. Tell our users how they can find you, where they can find you in social media, website, phone number.

Daniel Rubin
Sure you can find me at my website, at Rubin law PC, www.rubinlaw pc.com, on the socials is RubinlawPC, and my phone number is 213-723-2337. Hopefully you call me before you have an issue, but if you do have an issue, I’m happy to discuss. So thank you very much for everything.

Harry Nalbandyan
Thanks, Daniel. Thank you for being on. Thanks for joining us today on Harry handles it. I hope you enjoyed our conversation and found some valuable takeaways. If you’re facing challenges in your own life or business, whoever, then you’re not alone together. We can handle anything that comes our way. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review if you liked what you heard until next time, keep pushing forward and having life with confidence you.